Thoughts on cup shaping for a person with a rounder torso

 Had a thought, wanted to bounce it off you, might be a run away train with no destination yet.

- My torso is basically flat on front, where my breasts start, then slants back. This is made most obvious by the way my breasts point out about 90° to each other when wearing a bra made for “typical” breasts (straight out in front on flatter torso). You know the one? You lay down the bra and the wires are flat and two perfect mounds look great sitting there. Not me.

- Does my wire have to be larger than someone with a flatter torso because it is not just going across, but also back? Think of the cross edge of a right triangle, it has to be longer than the two edges to join both points.

- The wire basically is meant to be worn across a flat torso. What size would mine be if set across parallel to the front? (Way smaller!)

- Therefore my pattern should also have a long flat area in the cup side. If I use two wires to help build the cup pattern itself, then perhaps it should be the smaller one used to set that smaller portion of my breast balanced, as I was initially instructed to get a balanced even cup (which resulted in nips pointing out, rather than forward).

Then, I can add back in the portion between the two wires to support the side of my breast which would be added to an already shaped public side of the cup.

Thoughts?

Finally Time to Fit

 Finally,  a direction! The session started out with some general directions to be followed by anyone the fitter told needed it. I’m a bit surprised that the measurements on the alterations are the same for ALL of us, not unique to individuals. Okay, I’ll consider it a minor change.

They asked us to raise our zoom hands and wait our turns. There was some comments to the presenters, some jostling of the list for those at work. No one sent me any info before or during my turn. Yet, when my turn came, the fitter asked me how many bras I’d be fitting that day, and before I could answer some woman on their team spoke over me to say that I could only do two, and blatantly lied that it had been discussed with me. I am shook that such gaslighting is happening in this group. 

In the previous session, when they glanced at my bras, I had told the fitter that I only had two pairs of underwires in the correct size. I was able to show two and then go to the back of the line. The morning sessions had less people in attendance. The next sessions were scheduled on the weekend, and more people would be there…

Afterwards, I asked the fitter if I should cut down on the number of patterns. She expressed that it was fine. So, what’s with that other lady? There was not limiting information on the sign up. There were five patterns stated. 

Initializing Size

 I started the fitting course with the mind to try each of the patterns I fit within the range of sizes. The course had five suggestions, and only one did not size me to begin with. The fitters asked us not to do anything without their instruction! The first thing was to verify the starting wire with them. This is done on bare skin, with the arm overhead in order to bring the inframammary crease into its optimal shape. I fit the 40 Vertical or 40 Bliss best. 

The next stop was to make a fitting bra. If you haven’t heard of a fitting band before, it is a bra made without the cups. These work well for those who are self supporting. The idea of a fitting bra is to have the cups basted or pinned on so that the wearer can test it while actually having the weight of the breasts lifted into place. The drawback is if the cups are too small, the breast will be pushed out into the wireline and cause poor fit. And, if the cups are too big, the tension may be off and may be difficult to tell if band or cup causes it. But, if you shift your breast tissue into the cup, it should show inconsistency in size.

Before I cut and sewed the patterns, I printed or copied each out. I cut out the cups with no seam allowances and taped them together to check the size. 

My family gave me the go ahead to sew, and got into a game, while I made an assembly line to cut out and sew the four patterns. I sewed up the MakeBra DL03, AFI Elegance, and, from Pin Up Girls patterns , both Freja and Ruby -but with adaptations for Ruby to become the Amethyst.

The MakeBra DL03 was sewn in size 85C. The band is entirely powernet or can be split at the side (but add seam allowances!) for a different look. The lower band was snug even in the powernet. I was asked to try the next cup size down, so I sewed the second one with the stable front in 90A (up one band in number and down one in letters, 90B would be the same cups). This cup size was too small, and the band was too tight. Back to the original cup size. Did not need that side quest except to realize the band was too small. Over the course of that first week, my measurements increased! The next one I chose to make was 95B. This or 95A will be my size on this pattern.

AFI Elegance measured in size 85C. After the surprise increase on the DL03, I sewed up size 90B. With my vertical wires, the cups looked too small, so I sewed up the 90C. These cups fit well with my wires, so it became my starting size.

PUG Amethyst (Ruby) was copied  in 4.0, but the cross cup dimension did not meet my size. So, I copied the 4.25, which also wasn’t large enough.  I verified with the fitters that I was allowed to go up one more size. This one seemed to measure better on the paper cup, so I sewed both 4.25 and 4.5 to figure out my starting size. It seems 4.5 works better

PUG Freja 4.0 also seemed a bit small on the paper cup, and so I verified with the fitters and sewed up both 4.0 and 4.25. Surprisingly, 4.25 fit better.

Hurry up, wait. Verify everything. Will we be allowed to change anything in the next time together with the fitters?

Mésange Bra

 Last night I sewed up the Hari Ito Mésange Bra in size 38C. I have a pack from B,Wear that was one of the first kits I had purchased there, and this just called for it. It does seem a little silly to sew a test bra out of a kit, but it’s been in stash for ages, and the findings were pilfered for some other make.

I had sewn a practice bra ages ago, but it did not fit, was just white powernet and maybe marquisette for the frame. For this one, I followed each instruction almost to the letter - I should have trimmed the dart seam, but I did want to know where it ends. But, the band was tight! I think the power net is firm instead of regular strength, and for me that requires a longer band. Are the cups too big? 

Take two! This morning, I sewed up the 40A using the same kit. But, now I’m half spilling. Let’s figure this out!

The most obvious issue here is the darts are just way out there causing east-westing to no end. Let’s look at their display model and see what’s going on. Mésange on Hari Ito

The bra is only displayed on a mannequin. It would be interesting to see what they expect it to look like on a human.

Their band looks differently shaped than mine at center front. The super rounded under wire area is practically smooth, center front bridge is evenly joined… I have no reason to keep this bridge shaping that’s been added on my size, so maybe I’ll fill in the gap. Others may need that shaping, so it’s a nice option.

Ah ha! The side view gives me a clue as to what is happening. The wires look tilted back and end somewhat low. It looks similar on the mannequin I made, but on my body, the wires follow the inframammary fold and sit more upright. Because of this, the bra cups are rotated further up, and I’m spilling more than the pattern is supposed to. 

And, they have a pattern for Extra Cups for this pattern. These are in stable fabric instead of stretch. In those pictures, the dart looks like it is set nearly vertical. I may try them next to see.

How should I progress? First, the band needs love to fit me. The bottom of the band has scrunchy fabric, so I need to raise that edge to remove the excess. Fill in the lower front bridge some because I don’t have roundness on my torso right there. 

Then, those cups. I think the dart needs to be rotated. It seems to end at the right area, but the angle puts it in an area that doesn’t need the space (the dart is creating a shaped area). I want that shaping to be more under and less on the side. I think only an half to one inch shift of the dart should work. 

I’m looking forward to working on this some more. It’s a really cute pattern!

New Year, new Hurrah

 Revisiting the PUG Ruby Bra. I started watching the class recordings to pick up info I’ve forgotten. I picked up a poorly labeled bra from last spring and tried pinning out areas that weren’t fitting. Then I traced out a new pattern with the alterations and came up with this.

It doesn’t fit. My biggest issue with most bra patterns is that there is not room for my breast tissue where I need it. If I take a top down picture, it will show that the cups (and this mannequin) is made for someone without inner fullness.

This bra has bagginess at the outer cups, too. I’m going to shelf it again for a bit. I need to learn how to shift the shaping around more efficiently before I tackle this again.

Altering the Angle of the Back Band

 The angle that the back wing comes off the front frame is often quite down-sloping. I’m sure this fits some bodies, but it does not work for mine. This often gives me a band that is tight along the bottom and loose along the top.

Over this last year, I have been told several times to raise the upper edge of the side and back band, but it wasn’t clear how to do this. Several alterations on the internet can be worked at the side seam, but a side seam is placed by the pattern maker. It can be a structural placement, or artistic, or entirely arbitrary.

So, I came up with my own way of swinging up the back of the band. To start, there is a Frame piece and a Back Wing, these together form the bra band. I join them at the seam line to have one piece to manipulate. Here is a hand drawn version since I’m not in my sewing corner.

Next, I cut a line from the bottom band, there is often a curve along this area, up to where the cup and elastic seam allowances come together. I snip the opposite side close to but not through this point. 

Then, the back band swings up into position. For me, this is usually making the upper line flat, often 1/2 inch or more added to the bottom band. But, bodies vary, so do experiment!

Because of the large amount I add below, I may then have to shorten the back band. Or, often the band was too tight, and this gives me a pleasant length of band.

One last tidbit: if I know the amount will be an inch or more, I will start with the next band size down. For example, if I need size 36C, I’ll use the sister size 34D and alter that band.

Bra Nerds Unite!

 For the month of September, a group from the (Bra Bee) Hive has agreed to use the same pattern so we can compare the fit and changes needed to fit the pattern to ourselves. The pattern chosen this month is the Maya Bra by AFI Atelier. This pattern has been available, at no cost, for about nine years now!

Inputting my measurements in the AFI calculator spit  out a size of 85C/38C. I measured the pattern, had a laugh and immediately printed out the next size. The width of the cup would just not have enough space in that size.

I sewed up the 85D, straight from the pattern. I have Carmen wires, so I tried the size 40, as they look close to the right length for the wireline, and they seem more able to spring open. 

First version, Maya Bra 38D, Carmen 40 (similar size to BMS 42L) 

*Made to pattern* no adjustments at all 

Gore: Wide, sitting on breast tissue.

Band: Bottom band tight, upper band loose: need a rib flare adjustment to raise it a touch and give me breathing room.

Cups: feel too small, wire is sitting on outer breast tissue; which makes me unsure if the wire is too small.

Straps: set wide in front, but at a good angle in back, only wearing it a while will tell if they stay up or not.

Synopsis: if this was the first bra I had sewn, I would have thought it fit and been initially happy, but had no clue how to make it comfortable!

I decided to cut and sew right into this first version. First, the gore. I had sewn the last inch or so of the channeling in with a basting thread that I could remove to get the channeling out of the way.  I sewed 1/8-inch from the fold to remove 1/4-inch from the gore, this alleviated the wire sitting on my tissue. 

I plan to alter the band to give more room under the bust, but first I have to know how much. I cut into the side cradle, widened the bottom band by a thumb’s width, then sewed a patch of SCL (sheer cup lining, also called marquisette). I figured that would give me room to breathe, and if I added enough, make the looseness equal to the top band and then I could reduce the back band evenly. It didn’t quite work that way. I still need to take some out of the upper band, but now the bottom band feels better. This tells me to go up a band size on the next iteration (^/v goes together, up in band and down in cup size).

I made one other change in this first Maya attempt. I switched the underwires. I have some of each of the wires from Emerald Erin, and I switched the  Carmen for the Round 42 wires. The Carmen are rounder and the tops pinch in just slightly. The Round wires are straighter at the ends, but are long like strapless wires. The pressure on the sides of my breasts was mostly relieved. I think the larger side cup can still use a smidgeon of room through the cross cup. 

Last note, the underwire is too long for the wireline in this size. I thought it would be okay for a trial run, but it is sticking out almost a quarter inch! I’ll need to alter the pattern for that.

Pandering to the Right

 I wore the yellow half tulle bra yesterday while making adjustments and sewing up a new version in black with purple roses. My left breast aches today. I need to rework the pattern with more space in the left cup because that side is at least an half cup size larger than the right, probably a full size larger. The purple and black one came out cute, though. Back to the drawing board.

Bridging the Gore

 Since my bra sewing adventure began, my fit models have changed shape. I started this not long after finishing breastfeeding my youngest baby, who is now school-aged. The internal factories have shut down, and downsized. In my last post, I expressed how my initial thoughts in bra sizing were being proven wrong. And, now I have some other helpful fit tips to use.

I have been sewing the Lansdowne bra because the shape is closer to anything that fits me from the rack. Last night, I printed off the Devonshire bridge and compared it to the Lansdowne bridge.

Turns out, this is why they say this bra is supposed to produce cleavage, the center gore is trimmed to a narrower width. Next, I cut a copy of the Devonshire bridge without any seam allowances from poster board.

And, then I chopped it in half. I took that and trimmed a bit off each side until I could fit the bridge against my chest.

The photo shows just how narrow the gap is… only about 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch (6-9 mm). So, if I directly compare that to the Lansdowne… It will show that the Lansdowne bridge is wider than what I need normally.

Also, I think that the pulling together of the bridge makes it taller, and rotates the cups… Will that cause more issues if I make the bra with a bridge that fits me?